EP 98: Enchanting Design & Bitters with Woodspells Apothecary
Be sure to tune into this delightful chat with Val Alcorn of Woodspells Apothecary to learn more about the beauty of bitters, balancing flavors, setting up shop, designing a planner for the planet and why design matters. You are sure to learn a ton and be inspired from this fascinating chat about how to overcome health issues and help others.
A bit about Val
Val Alcorn is an herbalist, herb farmer, writer and artist living on Anishinaabe land in what is now Michigan. Her goal is to connect people with the stories and the medicine of the plants so that we may heal body and spirit with curiosity and reciprocity. She crafts a variety of herbal tools and goods with a focus on herbal bitters and runs a brick and mortar store in Gladwin, Michigan.
Val Alcorn Links
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Sara: [00:00:00] I am so honored and delighted to have on the podcast today. Val Alcorn of Wood Spell Aary. Val, thank you so much for being here
VAl: today. Thank you for having me. I'm really excited to talk to you.
Sara: Yeah, I just, I love your product line aesthetically, it's really gorgeous and all of your formulas are just really well considered and thoughtful and just very elegant simple formulas, which I really appreciate.
There's kind of a focus on bitters and nutritive tea blends. You also came out with a really beautiful planner recently, the Luca Planner, that I'd love to talk about. But kind of starting. At the beginning, I'm curious what brought you into the realm of herbalism, because it's always fascinating to know what gets people into connecting with plants on this deeper
VAl: level.
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, growing up I definitely always spent a lot of time outside camping, [00:01:00] hiking. My family, were very, are very outdoorsy people, so I always felt like I had this sort of extra connection to the natural world. But I never really, you know, I grew up and still live in the. And it's not really a sort of career path that I even knew existed to become an herbalist or anything along those lines.
So I actually went to art school and I got a degree, a bachelor's degree in digital media. And I worked for a big advertising company for a little while because art and creativity is sort of like my second passion and it still is, but I was actually having some pretty extreme digestive issues and my now husband and I moved out to Colorado and these digestive issues were just not resolving themselves.
I went to doctor, after doctor, I had an endoscopic, just all sorts of things and all they could tell me was. Take Tums, like that was their solution to these very extreme issues that I was having. So I had a [00:02:00] coworker that told me to go visit a naturopath, and that experience changed my life because he sat down with me for, you know, a good 90 minutes to go over my entire health history, everything that's going on with me.
And in the second meeting, found out what my digestive issue was, set me on a diet plan, gave me some herbs, and just basically a path, like a way out of this sort of really intense situation that I was in. And yeah, that moment really changed my life. I was like, well, this is what I have to do for the rest of my life now.
You know, and out in Colorado, of course, the health and. You know, industry is much more prevalent. So I had a lot of really great resources to start out there and just exploring. And then I knew that I wanted to sort of bring that home and bring that back to Michigan here where I, I grew up and now where I live again.
And so, yeah, that's kind of what I've been doing ever since though. It's, it's [00:03:00] been a very winding path, but, and you know, it's always changing as well.
Sara: Oh, that is so beautiful. And I can relate to so many pieces of your story as well. I also went to art school and am in Colorado now. I'm curious where
VAl: you were living here?
Yeah, we lived in Broomfield for a little while, and then we also lived in Denver as well. Oh, amazing.
Sara: Yeah. Yeah. It is such an amazing space. I'm really grateful for, yeah. Lorado as a space for healing as well. ,
VAl: it was an amazing experience and still has just a really special place in my heart, and there's so many amazing places, so many amazing people out there.
And so yeah, it was definitely like an awakening moment for me moving out there and living. And I feel like you really, especially if you're in such a really dark, heavy place that you just can't see a way out sometimes. Literally removing yourself from your physical environment and going somewhere completely different is, [00:04:00] you know, the answer.
And Colorado is definitely that for me. So I, I completely understand why, why you live there and all that sort of stuff, because it's, it's pretty incredible.
Sara: Yeah. Yeah. Similarly, I was living in New York and had really horrible health issues. And so I moved here kind of as a, as part of my healing journey as well, but it.
It's so interesting to see how food and herbs can really transform the way that you feel. And, and for me, flower essences as well, were really pivotal. But yeah, it's just so interesting to see. I attended a herb school here mm-hmm. . And I see a lot of times people will move here to go to the herb school and then they'll go back home to other places and bring their medicine with them because they realize like, like Boulder, Denver, like.
this amazing resource of wellness, but it's also kind of a bubble. And there's other places that need this medicine but [00:05:00] don't have a way to tune into it. So I love that you were able to go back to Michigan and bring your medicine with you. And for people who are watching on YouTube, you can see Val has beautiful jars behind her of all these gorgeous herbs.
But yeah, I love your, I love your apothecary space there. That looks
VAl: gorgeous. Thank Yeah, for sure. And I definitely feel that way. I live in a small town now. I actually grew up near Detroit, so I grew up in the city, but I live in, in a rural area now, and it feels like really important work to be able to.
You know, bring those sorts of things cuz we always talk about urban spaces and how, you know, food deserts and all of those sort of things which are really important. Bringing resources to urban areas, but also to rural areas because there's no sort of health food stores, you know, really any sort of resources to find those sort of healing modalities in these spaces as well.
So it, it feels like the right place to be for me for. That's so
Sara: incredible. Yeah. I saw that you have a lot [00:06:00] of you do a lot of work online selling your products through your website, but then you also, it sounds like, recently opened a storefront.
VAl: Yeah, absolutely. . So we actually just opened a brick and mortar store here in our little town of Gladwin last July actually.
And it originally started out as just me wanting to rent a space so that I could get my business out of my house so that I could have you know, legal commercial kitchen to make my, my products in, to have a space to ship products and all of that sort of thing. But then also we had a really nice little space in the front where I was like, well, I could also kind of set up a little retail area here too, to sort of interact with the community.
You know, working online, and I did it for a few years online solely. I didn't ever go to any sort of farmer's markets or anything like that, but, and it's great because you have great flexibility, but also you're on your own a lot. I, I talked to my animals like . There's [00:07:00] a, so I didn't really get to interact with, with people and the community and what turned out as just trying to find a space to house my business turned into something really rewarding because to be able to interact with people face to face, especially people who wouldn't necessarily know how to use any of this or you know, I guess gravitate towards it in the first place and see the plants work for them for the first time.
Like, that's the most rewarding, exciting thing. You know, I, I could really ask for as an herbalist, as, you know, a person in the healing space. Like, that's, that's powerful. That's really powerful stuff. So yeah, this is definitely a new venture. If you would've asked me like two years ago, , about opening a retailer or a brick and mortar store, I would've been like, there's no way.
But sometimes, you know, the opportunities come your way and you just kind of have to have to go for it. Nothing is permanent, nothing is your set in stone. I was like, I'm gonna try it out and see what the reaction is [00:08:00] and here we are, .
Sara: That's so beautiful. Yeah. It, there's something so magical about when we let the wind carry us and kind of be open to trying new things that we don't necessarily plan for, but that just feel right in the moment.
And I don't have my own shop, but I get to work at a little apothecary here in Boulder and part-time, and it is so. Incredible to be able to talk with people face to face and know more about what they're going through, what they want support with, and to see trends of, you know, in one day, like, oh, 10 people are asking about digestive health or about sleep.
And so it's so incredible to really understand what people are struggling with on the ground, like they're foundationally and then you can, you know, develop formulas or work on things that could be supportive for a number of different people in situations. [00:09:00]
VAl: Yeah. Do you work at Rebecca's Pathic Care?
I do. Yeah. Uhhuh . Okay. . Yeah, that's like where it all started for me. I'm obsessed. Oh, cool. With that place. And it was so funny, she actually, or someone there, reached out to me recently about stocking my bidders there just like this a few days ago, which is crazy. Oh. But yeah, I'm, yes. I actually like a lot of how I set up this space was kind of inspired by Rebecca Ary.
But yeah, it was like, it's a very magical, magical space. It's, yeah. I love it, .
Sara: That's so cool that you've been there. Yeah. It just feels like such a healing balm, just like walking through the door. It just is, it's been so healing for me to work there and just incredible to be able to support people in that space.
And yeah, I just, I love what Rebecca's done, so it's, it's exciting to think of, you know, just having your own storefront. That's such a cool transition. Exactly. And I love your bidders. I love the design of it [00:10:00] too. I imagine with your background in art, have you done a lot of the graphic design and photography and design for your Instagram and your website and stuff?
VAl: Oh, everything. This is, this is a one woman show. Like I do everything myself. My husband helps a lot. He does have his own full-time job, so it's not like it we're both full-time. It's me full-time. And then he helps with all of the IT stuff because that's what he does for a living. So all the technology in the storefront he'll help with, but also all the shipping, you know, working in the garden like.
Everything. He really is like the backbone of what I do and emotional support as well, which is super important too. But yeah, all of the creative stuff is for sure is, is definitely me. I, and I love it too. Like it, as I mentioned, I went to art school, so that still gives me that creative outlet to be able to do that side of things, which I really love.
Like making the, the website and the labels [00:11:00] and even posting on social media and things like that. I just, I love that stuff too. I love. That's amazing.
Sara: Yeah. You're so talented. I remember a couple years ago I saw one of your labels and I was like, oh my gosh, who is this? Like, I need to know more about this company because just, yeah.
The aesthetics of it were just really juicy and captivating. Thank
VAl: you. Yes. Well, and if you can tell, I'm definitely not a minimalist. Like I love color , I love fines, like all of that, like, you know, a lot of the products I was seeing, it just had, you know, either black and white labels or like the classic craft labels, which nothing wrong with that at all, but I was like, right, well, I feel like I'll just do me
And so I ended up just doing what I do and I do actually switch out the labels quite a bit too, just to switch it up. I don't know if that's the smartest business move, but I just enjoy, you know, doing that sort of stuff as well. But yeah, I love, I love color and I love creating those sort of unique labels as well.
So thank you .
Sara: Yeah, it's, [00:12:00] that's so inspiring and so fun. Cuz I know sometimes when thinking about branding, people will say, oh, you need to figure out your colors and figure out your fonts and then never change. And I'm just like, I don't know. I've had my business for like four years and this is not what you should do, but I like end up changing my colors and my branding like every month.
I, so, you know, I think just letting yourself change and adapt and giving yourself permission for things to evolve. I think there's a magic to that.
VAl: Yeah. I feel like if it's, if it's you have the same energy going into whatever you create and put forward. It's what it is, just being fluid about it, you know?
And I still have the same sort of, I feel like general aesthetic, so that allows me to do a little more freedom with the colors. I do keep a lot of the same fonts as well, but it's really, I change up the designs and and stuff like that too. So I, I think that's a very, and [00:13:00] coming from working in a corporate world the advertising world, like, yeah, not for me.
So like, it gets boring real quick. So I feel like there, it's totally possible to exist in a space where you can change things up and as long as you're using your own authentic voice and your own authentic, like you're keeping, you know, your core values at the heart of everything you do, like why not?
Like in my mind, that's at, at least that's what I think. Oh, beautiful. Yeah. That's so refreshing
Sara: to hear. Yeah. Yeah. I think values are really what makes your brand. what it is or who it is. You know, I sometimes think of companies as like, or like a brand as like a personality. Like I feel like, mm-hmm. , you know, it's not necessarily just you.
It kind of becomes this other force that you're in dialogue with and has its own kind of whims, you kind of get to play. Absolutely. Navigate with.
VAl: Absolutely. I 100% [00:14:00] agreed with that. It's definitely become its own sort of thing. Like it's a part of me and I don't think I could, you know, some brands will get their own social media infl or team and all of that sort of thing to pose for them and do all that sort of stuff, which would definitely make my life like way easier probably.
But I don't think I could ever do that just because I feel like I'm also so ingrained with, within the company and within the, the products and all of that sort of stuff. It'd be really hard for me to. I don't know, hand that off. That's like one of the things that I don't, I don't know if I could do eventually maybe we'd, you know, look into other sort of help.
But for sure, I think the face of the, of the brand, I, I always want to be my voice.
Sara: Beautiful. Yeah. I love hearing that. That's so cool. Like n reading your newsletters I just recently read a newsletter from you about your connection with Pine and your pine South that you make, and how Pine is this amazing medicine that is, Applicable for [00:15:00] so many different situations.
Like if you only need one salve to do it all, pine is the one to do it. And I personally have such a deep connection with Pine, both pine flower essence, and there's so many pines here in Colorado. And it was actually in meditating with the pine tree that I decided, oh, I need to start this podcast. And so , that's incredible.
Yeah. So I love Pine. I'm curious, just your connection with Pine and you had a, some really beautiful reflections in your newsletter about how to harvest mindfully and when to harvest pine and when not to harvest pine. And one of, if there's anything you wanna speak to there, I'd love
VAl: to hear it.
Yeah, for sure. Well when we moved back to Michigan, we moved to the forest. So we actually live. in the woods. Like you can't see our house from, from the driveway because we're literally in the middle of the woods. And two of the major species within the forest are white pine and red pine. And there's just something about [00:16:00] pine in particular that just really called to me, you know, it's just, so when you think about pine trees in general, you kind of think about like prickly, like sturdy, sort of inflexible.
Maybe those are just a few words that come to mind maybe. But for me, white pine was so like billowy and just really a magical force. And it just felt so peaceful. Just being around the pine, sitting under the pine, like that's what I ha need to think. I just go sit at the white, the the foot of the, a big white pine tree and just look up at the branches and it's just so soft.
Like the needles are soft. They're bendable, they've sway in the wind. It is just such a comforting tree in general. And yeah, the, the Woods Woman, SAV, what you're talking about, was actually the first product that I made ever for Wood Spell, because it was just, I mean, and it still is my go-to, my only Sav that I ever make.
You know, there's so many people that make [00:17:00] like 20 SVEs for so many different things, which is obviously totally fine. And I'm totally a, a proponent of really individualizing herbs to certain conditions, obviously. But for skin conditions, the Pine Sav has been, indispensable. Like there's hasn't been anything that I haven't been able to treat topically w with the, the pine sav.
And besides weepy conditions, like I always tell people you can use it on anything except for weepy conditions like poison ivy, where you really wanna dry it out, but, and you wouldn't wanna use any sav for, you know, that condition anyways. But yeah, the Pine Sav is just so potent. It's got so many great antimicrobial properties.
It's antifungal as well. And if you think about how the pine tree actually uses the resin, you can really see why it works so well for our, our skin. Because whenever the tree bark or the trunk is injured, that's when the resin comes out and coats the tree and then it hardens [00:18:00] over time it actually looks like bark.
You know, if you, if you wait a couple years and go see a big, like glob of resin, it actually turns gray and brown and kind of just hardens into just a second skin for. The, the pine tree. And that's what it, it can do for us. It can really help our, our cells to not break down and to coat the skin as well as, as you know, combining with the bees wax.
And I also use hemp oil in it as well. It's just a really soothing, comforting sav. And I've had people use it for c-sections. I've had people use it for burns, for pimples, for just minor scrapes and bruises for dish pan hands for eczema, psoriasis, just, you know, pretty much anything. So definitely I am a huge fan of the Sav and yes, I do only, I'm very careful about Wildcrafting because I do think that number one, I'm on indigenous land and I completely, you know, want to acknowledge that and be mindful of [00:19:00] that as well.
And you know, part of our business is giving back to those indigenous com communities financially, and you know, also just supporting them in any other way that I can as well, but, . So I try and either har or source my herbs from local organic growers or grow them myself. But the pine SAB is one exception because I know that it helps so many people.
So what I do is I go out just one time per winter when all of the ferns die back. It's really easy to get to the tree. There's no bugs out. So it's just a really meditative experience to go from pine tree to pine tree and collect literally just enough from the, the tree or the branches or where it's dripped down and collect that over a period of a couple weeks.
And then making sure, of course, that the, the wound that the resin is covering still has plenty, plenty, plenty of resin to harden and keep the trees safe without, you know, getting infected or anything like that. And then, yeah, it's just one of my favorite, [00:20:00] favorite, favorite harvest of all time. I take my dog out there and we're usually the only ones out there anyways.
But yeah, that's, it's definitely. One of my favorite harvests of all time and White pine will always hold a special place in my heart. I love Red Pine too, which is pretty abundant over here. But I just find that it doesn't produce as much resin probably, because you know, a lot of times where resin comes out are where branches break off or anything like that, but Red Pines are so tall that they really don't have many openings lower on the trunk.
So Red Pine is, you know, wonderful to have around, but for resin collecting white pine's, definitely my go-to.
Sara: Oh, so beautiful. And I loved in your newsletter you talked about like when you harvest, if you see a tree that has been ballooned mm-hmm. , sometimes you'll use some of the resin from your harvest and coat it to protect protect the trees too.
So I love that, that exchange of like harvesting and giving back to the plants. And also [00:21:00] just that recognition of being on indigenous land and being grateful and respecting and honoring that culture that came before and that, you know, was so unjustly. Torn away from the land. So I think any way we can give back is fantastic.
And I noticed on your website you have a discount for Bipo community members. I thought that was such a beautiful idea as well. I would love to see more people doing that. And I wanna implement that as I'm curious like how that came about and just how that, how you weave that into your business as well.
VAl: Yeah, I mean, just existing in the herbalism and health and wellness space in general is very It's just a very complicated space to be in. You know, because number one, we're living on indigenous land and so the plants that we grow or harvest from are coming from indigenous land. Also, a lot of the knowledge that we have [00:22:00] in Western herbalism comes from you know, slaves and from indigenous.
Knowledge as well, and they haven't been acknowledged for that. So I feel like we have a really big responsibility to give back in as many different ways as we can to sort of spread the resources to support their voices as well. So yeah, we do give discounts to all Bipo customers, no questions asked it.
It is just, that's what we do. We also do a special annual care package for specific bi bipo healers that are doing really great things in their communities as well. And then we do pay just yearly reparations to the Anishinabe tribes here in Michigan as well. So we do what we can, we acknowledge, you know, that we're not always perfect either.
We try and be. You know, understanding and compassion and keep learning as much as we can, but also to spread this wonderful plant medicine that I know can help so many [00:23:00] people. So it's just a very delicate balance of, you know, making sure that I'm doing this responsibly, that I'm, you know, taking into consideration other people's experiences and perspectives as well.
And yeah, again, I don't know if , I'm always doing it perfectly, but I just want to keep exploring that too. Mm-hmm. I love
Sara: that. Yeah. Thank you so much for all that you just spoke to. I, I did a herbal postpartum training years ago called Grandma's Hands. And in the training they talk about how so much of the history of herbalism in the US is from the granny midwives and from The, the slaves in this country and the indigenous people and how oftentimes herbalism is credited to white dudes in Europe.
And it's like, I think all over the world people have used plants to heal. [00:24:00] But I think, yeah, just remembering to give back to the cultures that really have contributed so much to this knowledge
VAl: and. To Acknow and Western journalism is just, it's a weird conglomeration of so many things because you also have, you know, of course it's, I think it's mostly the acknowledgement and giving credit where it's due.
Because of course then we had all the knowledge that the settlers brought over from Europe, from Poland and Ireland and in wherever they came from, you know, they also brought their medicine and their recipes as well. And that sort of, you know, combined into just this big thing that we have that we call Western herbalism now.
And it's, it sometimes is difficult to sort of tread through and figure out, you know, how and where to give credit and all of those wonderful things. But I think just letting people speak who haven't had the chance to speak for so long is super important. And to support them in any way that we. . Hmm.
Sara: Beautiful. Yeah. Thank you for [00:25:00] that. That's, I think that's so important to recognize. Mm-hmm. . I'm curious, kind of getting back to your specific company and the work that you're doing I love the focus on bidders and your nourishing tea blends as well. I'm curious, how did you get I, you know, there's such a focus on bitters and I'm always encouraging people to have more bitters.
You know, it's like that Guido Mae quote, like, taste bitter to feel better, and it's like this forgotten flavor. I'm curious your relationship with Bitters and how you've created these formulas that are so balanced and
VAl: nuanced. Oh, thank you so much. Yeah. I bitters the, when I launched my company, probably.
Four years ago now, actually in February I launched a, the sav, which we talked about in three bidders blends. That was all. So I only put four you know, blends out in the market. So if anybody out [00:26:00] there is thinking about starting a product company but thinks that they need, you know, 20 products to start out with, no, that's absolutely not true.
So I had four and three of them were bitters and yeah, it was actually such a weird, I, I think back to this a lot and I'm, I kind of wonder how I got started on the Bitters path. Of course, I mentioned that I did have digestive issues and those were of, of course, you know, Part of it, but they weren't a main focus as well.
They were just a supportive sort of blend for me. And I was actually in Durango, Colorado for my honeymoon with my husband obviously. And I went to one Willowa, or not one Willow, sorry, that's age suer, I think it was Dancing Willow Apo Carey in Durango. And they had Guido Masley's book, DIY Bitters. And I bought it on my honey honeymoon.
And yeah, I just became, Just intrigued and obsessed and all of those wonderful things with Bitters, because I think they're so fascinating and I think that they're so un [00:27:00] misunderstood, you know? Because we're just so bombarded with sweet, salty, just these sugary tastes that we are all around us here and our modern diets, modern lives, but the bitter has completely been just wiped out, which is insane because I like to tell people, bitters are really like our ancestors because when plants.
Birds came around and we're starting to come up out of the earth. All plants were poisonous, all plants were very intensely bitter. And so when humans came around, we kind of co-evolved with plants so that we could digest these plants so that we could digest these bitter compounds as well. So we actually developed, I believe it's, oh gosh, I can't believe I forgot the number, like 23 bitter taste receptors on our tongue.
Whereas sweet and sour and umami only have three to four taste receptors. So really, bitters are just very complex, very ancient, very old flavors. And you know, all of our foods used to have bitter compounds and then before we [00:28:00] bread them out so that we have just more bland, sort of unchallenging flavors that we can eat on a daily basis.
So bringing Bitters back into our daily lives is like not only helping our bodies, but also connecting with our ancestors, connecting with the plants. It's just a really. Powerful medicine, I feel like, and yeah, in Guido is obviously amazing at what he does and it's such an inspiration to me. But yeah, he's totally right.
You take bitters to feel better because it really jump starts your entire body because the medicine is in the taste. You have to taste that bitter flavor, which then stimulates your digestive system to start secreting bile. And digestive enzymes as well, which just helps increase the flow of the metabolism and break down fats and all of those sort of things and detoxify the liver and just keeps, keep everything flowing.
So that, and it just helps in so many ways from the skin to cramping and bloating indigestion, heartburn, you know, just so many [00:29:00] different areas of the body. I just feel like they really are just essential to some sort of wellness routine. Even if you aren't having digestive issues. I just feel like it really helps.
Everything keep flying because as we know in the gut, we have 70% of our immune system. We've got neurotransmitters in our gut. We have this huge like just garden of compounds and flora and just so many things in there that everything else stems from. So making sure that's in tiptop condition at all times is super important.
You know, we all know taking probiotics is important, but I feel like Bitters should really be just on par with that in my mind at least. But again, I'm kind of obsessed, so that's just .
Sara: I, I totally agree. Yeah. I teach, I got health class and I always talk about the importance of like fat, fiber, bidders, probiotics, like live things and aromatics.
So kind of like having this mix of all these different [00:30:00] things and yeah, it's just so interesting the difference that Bitters can make. And I was, I just heard something recently about how. , one of the biggest predictors of fertility I work with, I'm a postpartum doula, so I work with a lot of families. And one of the biggest predictors of fertility is gut health and bidders are one of the easiest things you can add to improve your gut health.
And so, yeah, I just, that's, that's, .
VAl: Yeah. Little known fact. We actually have bitter taste receptors on our ovaries, which is crazy, but they Oh, just came out with the study about that. It's crazy. So a lot of people who deal with P C O S and all of that sort of stuff have found a lot of benefits from taking bitters as well, which, you know, not only improves the menstrual cycle, but also, like you mentioned, increases fertility as well.
So it's, it's pretty fascinating stuff and we're just starting to learn, you know, we're still learning all of the, the ex extent that Bitters have on our [00:31:00] body. So yeah, it's pretty incredible. But I mean, it makes total sense if you think about it. We evolved with these sort of compounds in their, like, we're, we're meant to be together,
That's how I feel about it. Yeah. And I think it's so fun too, to like formulate that sort of stuff too, because it's so easy to make just like a sweet, like floral, wonderful tasting blend of whatever rose or lavender, that's great, but it's. More challenging to take like a bitter flavor. And there are so many different types of bitter too.
There's like salty bitters, there's sour bitters, there's pure bitter, you know, there's some with more sweet compounds as well. So it's really fun for me to play around with those flavors and then mix them in with more aromatics and other sort of plants as well to get something that's really interesting.
Sara: Mm. I love that. Yeah. I, in herb school, we had to do how's where we would focus herb of the Week and you would have to have one herb for the whole, [00:32:00] it was really two week period and focus on like just that herb. And I was working with blue vervain and it taught me how to work with the bitter. And I just realized like, oh, if you stretch it in other directions, like adding a little bit of salt or a little bit of vinegar or honey, like stretching the bitter into other directions oftentimes can help it to be more balanced and more approachable.
Exactly. But I think there is something to having like the bitter just as it is as well. Yeah.
VAl: And a lot of times, and blue vervain is like one of my just favorite herbs of all times, specifically for me just because mm-hmm. , I'm a person that carries a lot of tension in like the head and neck and shoulder area, so it really helps me to just like, whew.
just like breathe out. So yeah, not only is it a great, you know, I find that the best bitter herbs are not only great digestive herbs, but also Irvine herbs because, you know, we have the gut brain axis, so anytime one's off balance, the other's off balance. So [00:33:00] finding herbs like that, that have both those qualities is really powerful.
And I think a, a lot of bitter herbs tend to run sort of cooling and drying. So yeah, adding in some things to make it more balanced, like warming or pungent you know, ginger's a great catalyst for bitters blends to really, you know, get things moving into motion. So yeah, there's just so many different things that go into formulation and I think that's one of my favorite parts of just the business is coming up with different techniques and, and blends and all, all of that sort of stuff.
Oh, amazing.
Sara: I love hearing about that kind of recipe formulation. Have you found any books or mentors or had your own experiences that have helped you learn how to formulate flavors that work together?
VAl: Yeah, I mean, the d i y Bitters book that I mentioned by Guido was definitely my starting point and led me down so many different rabbit holes.
And it was super because he, he does say in the book like [00:34:00] different flavors that they would go well with exactly what sort of ratio and strength of alcohol you should use to extract each herb. So that was really exciting and I really hadn't found any other. Books specifically on formulating Bitters.
So that was huge for me, and I honestly still go back to that book, you know, to this day it's, it's just indispensable. So, and obviously, you know, urban Moonshine is one of the biggest bitters companies out there, so he obviously knows what he's doing. . ,
Sara: yeah. Awesome. That's, that's a great resource. Thank you.
And that book is so fabulous. I agree. Mm-hmm. I'm curious too about your T blends, how you come up with those formulas? Is it just kind of trial and error or experimenting, or how do you decide what kind of formula to add next to your product line?
VAl: Yeah, I think what I really wanted to do with those blends was to make more tonic blends, which are just the longer infusions.
Because I think they've been so [00:35:00] nourishing to me to be able to steep teas for overnight, for hours at a time to really extract every single, you know, medicinal compound nutrient, mineral vitamin that it contains to really support the body. Because I feel like that's really helped with my energy, with my just wellbeing as well.
So I wanted to just create something in that sort of direction. But yeah, I mean, all of my different blends come from so many different places. I think one thing that I'm really inspired by is just folklore and my own polish roots and just, you know, a lot of times my blends will come from stories and from, you know, Stories that the plants talk about and stories that, you know, myths talk about as well.
I just think it's so interesting to play around with, you know, the plants and story and put those together. Like the baby yaga bidders are obviously based off of baby Yaga, the famous Slavic witch, and she's just this [00:36:00] wonderful, you know, crazy Crohn mythological being that, you know, will help, you know, travelers, but also might eat them.
You don't really know . So she is, in one way, she is just this very bitter sort of energy that I really felt would be just so exciting to do in a bitters blend because she's very like, just fierce, very biting. But also she's also very wise and, you know, wonderful and can be. maternal in a certain way too.
So it's just this dichotomy, which is why I wanted to add in sage and rosemary and tulsi, which are these very grandmother esque plants. But also rosemary helps to improve memory and function and or cognitive function and all of those sort of things. And tulsi helps to balance those stress hormones.
And so even their medicinal compounds help to embody just this, you know, crazy grown woman from the forest. In a lot of ways I kind of resonate with her too. [00:37:00] But yeah, so a lot of my blends will come from, You know, just looking in into my own roots and, you know, or dreams or just sitting with the plants and seeing where it comes.
And also, now that I have a brick and mortar store a lot comes directly from the community and what their needs are. You know, sinus issues have been huge this past year, even starting in summer, like everybody having the upper respiratory issues. And so I've, I do have certain blends that I only sell in the shop, so a lot of times, you know, now that I'm here, we'll formulate things specifically for the needs of, of people here too.
Oh, so
Sara: cool. I love that merging of traditions and storytelling and in inspiration from dreams and visions. Like, that's just such a beautiful way to come up with formulas. That's such a, that's so yeah. Just so beautiful and fun. Thank you. And then pivoting and thinking about [00:38:00] your new planner, the Luca Planner, I'm curious where that vision came from and how that has come about and evolved.
VAl: Yeah, absolutely. Well, Luca is going back to my own roots because I've really been trying to learn more about my Polish ancestry and, and all of those sort of things. So the Luca is an upside down crescent moon, and it's a symbol of protection. You know, it's a symbol of the moon goddess. But what I found really interesting was that the horns of the moon are facing down towards the earth, which is, you know, in biodynamics the, the points of the horn is where the most energy resides.
So I think it's really interesting where it's, you know, an homage to the, to the moon, but also to the earth as well, where the horns are pointing. So I thought it was a beautiful sort. You know combination of sky and earth. So I really wanted to create this planner that was seasonal, but also incorporated moon gardening and, and gardening by the moon and all of those sort of [00:39:00] things because, and in a planner, just because personally I use a planner all the time, I am so chaotic that I need a, a thing where I can write everything down.
And I really wanted everything that I loved in my life to be in one place. So it's a garden planner. It, every day it talks about what's the best activity to do for gardening by the moon, which of course our ancestors have done for thousands of years. You know, agriculture was the first use of astrology, as you know, that we know of at least.
But so I think it's. Powerful to be able to connect to the earth and the sky in that sort of way. So I wanted that. But we also included different seasonal recipes from a lot of different creators as well. There's room for journaling and reflection. There's plant monographs on there. So honestly, it, it's kind of like in my way, my own little journal.
And so it's kind of just putting that out there for people to, you know, resonate with. And I think it's a lot [00:40:00] more accessible for people to learn about plants and to try new things when they're in little bite size pieces instead of, you know, just throwing everything at you at once. So that's why we have little bits and pieces for each month, each season.
But yeah, to just really help people live more. intentionally within the season that they're in. And also to connect to the, the moon and the earth in different ways. So, and also to, you know, keep track of daily activities as well because we still live in the modern world and we still need to remember to do modern things too.
Sara: Oh, that's so beautiful. I think it's so interesting to think about making more digestible content for people and leaving that into the planner. That's a really cool idea. And also just, you know, I feel like through creating more ritual in our mornings or evenings or just having like a minute of reflection, it's a really great way to [00:41:00] set the tone for that day or the next day.
You know, I find if I can plan a little bit through the week, my week is, goes so much differently than if I just. See where the wind carries me. You know, like just a little teeny pinch of intention and writing down, okay, what would feel really good to get done today? You know? And then just having that on paper makes such a difference.
And they've shown, like in studies with sleep, for example, sleep significantly better. They just write down what they're worried about before they go to bed or what they're, what they need to get done the next day. So I think to leave in a planner to wellness is such a natural Such a natural merging, you know?
Cause I think if you can have a little bit more intention and ritual to your day, you're more likely to maybe make [00:42:00] yourself a cup of tea or, you know, take your bitters or do something nice for yourself that just helps you to feel better. And if you're feeling better, you're more likely to be nice to other people and nice to the planet.
So it all ripples out, you know, .
VAl: Absolutely. 100%. And yeah, I, I totally, and there's so many great astrology planners out there and, and you know, all of those sort of things. And I do include some you know, the different lunar zodiacs for each day. But I really wanted a planner that was based on the land and the seasons and the moons specifically.
So I was hoping that, you know, putting those little digestible pieces would help people, you know, spark their curiosity and, and see where it goes. Cause I feel like that's really the key to. Connecting with the plants to, instead of, you know, reading a whole textbook on herbs, you know, the, the most empowering things that I've learned from the plants have come from little tidbits that have been dropped here and there.
So [00:43:00] my hope is that maybe some of the things in the planner that they come across will help inspire, you know, a different rabbit hole for them to go down or, or see how that works out. Or try a new recipe that inspires something creative within them as well. And just, yeah, just find a little bit of peace, a little bit of ritual in your, in your daily life.
And that's one of my main things to get everything out of my mind, especially, you know, as a business owner, is to just, at the end of my day, I write down all the things in my planner that I wanna get done for the next day. So that way I don't have to worry about it when I get home. I don't have to worry about it at night.
I can just, you know, be done with it And yeah, enjoy the rest of my evening. Oh, beautiful.
Sara: I love that. How did you make the planner? Like did you design it all yourself or did you work with other people? Like, cuz it seems like kind of a massive project of art and organization and information and editing and aesthetic, like there's just so many things coming together and printing [00:44:00] and.
Mailing it out to people. Like how did that all happen? That's, was all
VAl: you ? Oh, it was a lot. It took up about five months of my life, but I believe it. Yeah. I, yeah, I, I designed it all myself. I, the artwork is from me, but I, as I mentioned, the, the, some of the recipes in there, the seasonal recipes that come at the beginning of each month are featured from other content creators from different cultures that I, you know, wanted people to, you know, experience as well.
So there were some entries from them as well, but all the plant monographs were from me, all that sort of stuff as, as well. But we did partner with a local printer up in Traverse City, and she was actually a friend of mine that I worked with before I started with wood Spell, and she has her own print shop, so I really wanted to support her as well.
And so she printed all of these for me on top of all of her other jobs. And yeah, she was, Printing nonstop for like a good month to get everything done. And then with shipping, that was a whole [00:45:00] other process. Of course, my husband, you know, was spending hours and hours with me too to get everything out to everybody before the new year, cuz obviously you, you need a planner before January.
So that was, it was a huge undertaking. It was a really big project, but it was one of the most creative and exciting things to that that I've done because it incorporates so many different pieces of myself too. So it was big and it was a little scary too, but it was, it was a lot of fun and I'm really excited that people resonated with that too and found that they, you know, want something like that in their lives to sort of combine, you know, all the things that they love, food plants, gardening, and then, but also put it, putting it in sort of a organizational way, hopefully.
Oh, so
Sara: cool. I love
VAl: that. Yeah, love that. When I do it again though, next year, I think I, I probably will have somebody else help me with , you know, putting all the designs and, you know, layouts at least together, because that was a lot of work for sure. Yeah. [00:46:00] Are you really
Sara: good with Adobe in design or how did
VAl: you Yeah, I use like the artwork for the cover I did in Photoshop, but I used InDesign for the layout and all of that.
So yeah, that w that helps. Having some knowledge in working with that was, was key. Otherwise, there's no way I would've been able to, to do it myself for sure. .
Sara: Yeah, that's a huge undertaking. I'm, I'm impressed . Thank you. Well done. I'm curious just thinking of inspiration, if there's someone you wanna call out who's inspiring
VAl: you.
Oh my gosh. I mean, there's so many people, there's so many wonderful folks in not only the product business but also, you know, just the community herbalism and giving plant walks. I think one of them who's he's always been one of my favorite teachers of all time is Jim McDonald. He's here in Michigan.
And I actually took one of my first plant courses from him and it was a plant walk, [00:47:00] so we actually went out into the woods and he had us chewing on bark and, you know, all of those sort of things. And that was like an eye-opening experience for me to know, to experience that sort of plant to. Person connection to be able to just chew on bark straight from, from the tree.
Of course harvested sus, you know, sustainably for the tree. And so, yeah. And he's so funny and knowledgeable and yeah, just a really great guy. He actually popped into my shop just randomly. I had no idea that he even knew who I was or I thought I was just some random girl in his class. But he found me on Facebook of probably through some other people and yeah, just stopped into the shop one day and it was so cool.
But yeah, he is just one of the most generous kind people for sure. Also I think, gosh, there's so many, I love Deb Soul of Avena Botanicals. I think her model of how she runs her business is super inspiring. You know, they have their [00:48:00] own gardens where they harvest their herbs from and have their own, they're, cuz they're in a rural area in Maine as well.
So they're kind of in the same setting, doing the same sort of thing as me. Cause I think. , maybe some, I, I don't know if this is obviously not true for everybody, but I think making products sometimes is looked down upon as opposed to doing consultations or other sorts of, you know, just education, whatever.
But I think it's super important because I think it's the most accessible way for people to work with herbs because not everybody can afford, you know, hundreds of even thousands of dollars for consultations or training or you know, other sort of things. So making products is super and good quality products too is super important, especially for people in rural areas that can't afford a lot and, you know, don't really even know where to start with that.
So she's been super inspiring to me. And you know, cuz sometimes too you're like, [00:49:00] is what I'm doing, you know, the right thing for the, for the world right now? Is this what the world needs? Like, am I doing good work? Like, you know, is, are putting products and just more stuff out into the world worth it? And I think looking at people like her and all of the wonderful things that she does and how she gives back shows me that it is and that it is needed and, and all of those sort of things too.
So, . Yeah. And of course I could just go on and on. I think soul Fire Farm, which is a black-owned farm on the East coast, as well as doing some amazing work just to empower other people of color to start farming and ma growing their own food, growing their own medicine. And I've been to some of her classes as well, and she's just so kind, so giving yeah, and I, I learned a lot from her too, so there's just so many people out there for sure.
Sara: Oh, amazing. Well, yeah, thank you for mentioning those, some of those top highlights. I feel like it's just so incredible the people that we get to learn [00:50:00] from and be inspired from and yeah. That's so exciting. I'm curious what advice you would give maybe to your younger self or to someone else starting out in the herbal world or the creative world.
VAl: Yeah. I always tell people, just follow your curiosity because I really think that that's how you retain knowledge. That's how you learn the most. That's where. You know, I feel like fate kind of leads you to where you need to be is following that little, like, muse, that little thing that's, you know, always sort of knocking at the door that, you know, you might think like, Hey, how am I even gonna make this work?
This doesn't make sense. It doesn't matter. Like, you just see where it takes you. And even now, even in an established business, I'm always still listening to my curiosity, still seeing, you know, where it takes me and wh what it shows me. Because a lot of times it shows me the sort of medicine that the world needs right now that I need to be [00:51:00] making, or words that I need to be saying or anything like that.
So I think, you know, not getting too caught up in the details and the hard facts, the constituents, the studies, you know, the herbal actions, you know, the formulations right away, I think that's, it's too much because it's, it's unending. We can never learn it all. It's impossible. Even now I feel like I've only scratched the surface.
And but you can still do so much good. with only a little knowledge. Like even just being able to make a simple sav with a plant that you connected to, or a sim, simple tincture that you connected to can help other people. And it, like I always told myself, if I can just help one person, then I know that I'm doing the right thing and that I'm still, you know, on the right path as well.
So if you can just follow that curiosity, I think that'll, that'll lead you to where you need to go personally.
Sara: Hmm. Oh, that is so good. It's feels so[00:52:00] true and simple. And I'm reading this book right now called Subtract, and it's all about how oftentimes people think of like, what can they add in to find a solution.
Like naturally people want more like adding mm-hmm. to problem solve, but actually oftentimes the answer is to do less. And I like that simplicity of just, , follow your curiosity. See where that carries
VAl: you. . And as a maximalist person, as I mentioned, I love color, I love design. Like I'm not, I'm not a hoarder, so I don't have a lot of material things, but just like my mind is always going, there's al it always, you know, so my natural tendency is to add on.
So, you know, practicing curiosity and practicing that sort of playfulness is a way to sort of strip away that sort of excess. Noise, if you will. And just, you know, being, and I think curiosity too helps you be more present in the moment and present with [00:53:00] whatever you're working on, whatever you're interested in as well.
So I think that's just, that's a key. And they, people don't teach you that in any sort of school, really. Even like herbal schools. It's all very still formulated and structured in the traditional way of like, these are the plants for heart health, these are the plants for gut health, blah, blah, blah, blah.
But I found a lot of times too, like there are certain plants that have called to me or have, you know, piqued my interest that really, if you look in a textbook, didn't make sense for anything that I was dealing with at the time or that somebody else was dealing with at the time that I was, you know, looking for.
But then I start working with it and like all of a sudden things start clicking into place and you're like, wow, this actually like really helps. And you know, if I didn't listen to my curiosity that, you know, never would've happened as well. So just, you know, obviously learning. , you know, the, the basics and all of that sort of stuff is important, but just keeping that little sense of play and curiosity in the corner, I think is [00:54:00] super important.
Sara: Agreed. That's so beautiful. I'm curious, what's something that you feel grateful
VAl: for? I mean, honestly, my health, I think that's, especially going through health issues that can be, they can be really debilitating. Like, if you don't have your health, you don't have anything, like, you know, you really don't, you can't show up for your family, your friends, in the way that you want to.
You can't show up for yourself. You can't show up for the world, the community in the way that you can. And so I wouldn't be able to do anything that I'm doing now without my health. So I'm always, always, always grateful for that. I think. Is huge. And you know, really without that we, we wouldn't be here, you know, so it's, that's a big thing.
And so I'm always trying to nourish myself as much as I can. And obviously it doesn't always work. So, you know, life goes in waves, but I always try and come back to that, you know, steady sort of intune ness with my body as well. So, yeah, [00:55:00] I'm just really grateful for my health. I'm grateful for this community too, like this just a little rural community for, you know, being open and being interested in, in talking about these sort of things and being you know, receptive to what I have to say because I think a lot of people are interested in, you know, nourishing their health, just, they just don't know where to start.
And so, you know, I still have people that, you know, will call me a witch doctor in the, in a nice way. But like, there's still just, you know, there's still stigmas and stuff about that, but for the most part everybody's been just so wonderful. And it's so exciting to see that sort of, Change in, in smaller communities.
I had a, a teacher that once said like, her dream was to have an herbalist in every county, in every state, in the whole, in every country, whatever. And I was like, it, like gave me chills. I was like, that's so exciting. And this was before I even did all this before I opened a brick and mortar. And so it's kind of come full circle to, you know, just putting, [00:56:00] you know, these sort of people where they need to be for their communities.
And so I hope that also brings in other herbalists. I know that Alex from Black Locust Garden and Corin from white Pine Rising are actually opening their own little brick and mortar store in Ypsilanti, Michigan. So that's super exciting as well. Shout out to them. They're both wonderful and so yeah, just being able to, I don't know, share the words of the plants is, yeah, I'm grateful for that.
I'm grateful to be able to do that. .
Sara: Yeah. So beautiful. Yeah. I, without our health, we have nothing. I know that all too well as well. Mm-hmm. , just, yeah. Being able to heal and have the plants support us on this journey is such a gift. And, and this community, I think the herbal, the herbal and the art communities both are just so full of magic and transformation and people just supporting each other and encouraging each other, and I, I love that.
I think community is where it's [00:57:00] at.
VAl: It's so important. And I, you know, I once. I heard somebody that, that said, you know, if you can't find the community that you belong in, like make that community. Because there was a, a time too when I was working online for my business, we were living in the forest in this tiny town that I didn't really know anybody because, you know, we had just moved from Colorado.
I had never actually been to this town before we moved here. And so there was a lot of times where I felt kind of disconnected from, you know, people even, you know, being online and having that social community online is great, but it also, you know, you can only make so many deep connections with people over the internet.
And so I'm so, so, so grateful for everybody on those platforms as well. But it, it felt like I was just kind of isolated from that, that space. And so you know, this is kind of my version of, you know, the brick and mortar is kind of my version of creating that sort of community that, you know, I wanted to see.
And I think a lot of people, and chances are too, if you're longing to. Find your community, then [00:58:00] the chances are somebody else is also looking for the community that you are a part of as well. So I think just putting it out there and putting yourself out there, I think people will surprise you and, and show up for you in ways that you might not even expect.
Sara: Hmm. Yeah. So true. Yeah. I love that. I'm curious, what is something that you would love to accomplish or do in this year ahead, or something you're excited about? Yeah,
VAl: I I mean, just keep doing what I'm doing. I'm really excited about being here, about continuing to make products. I'm excited to work on next year's planner.
Two, to make it even better. , you know, just keep connecting with people. This year one of the things that I did wanna do is to have more adventures and do more exploring. And just because last year was very focused on opening the shop and, you know, getting everything set in place. So, you know, I didn't do a whole lot of things outside of this, which was totally fine.
I was [00:59:00] totally part in it 100% the whole time. But this year I'm excited to, you know, maybe go explore some new things. We were actually thinking about, you know, going back to New Mexico where we got married, my husband and I, and you know, do some exploring down there. And yeah, just, just having more freedom to do fun things as well.
even though it's, that's not part of the business. But yeah, I'm excited to do that. That's,
Sara: that's great though. I mean, I think, yeah, we need to nourish our souls and our spirits mm-hmm. in order to have businesses. You know, like, it can't just be, we're not machines, you know, we're, we need to like live and have to see fun encounters to keep things
VAl: flowing.
Yeah. And a lot of times that sort of, you know, leads to different curiosities or inspirations that, you know, bleed into the business as well. Like, I just, as a creative person, I just feel like you need to have just different experiences and get out of your own little, [01:00:00] little bubble sometimes. So yeah. I, I'm excited, I'm excited to do something like that.
I don't know what yet, but I, I've got a few ideas.
Sara: Amazing. Yeah. I love that. And any favorite resource that you wanna suggest for people or a favorite book or podcast? .
VAl: I will say that the, the book that kind of solidified the, what I wanted to do and to follow this path was Spiritu Ecology by Luan von Lee.
I actually got it at a little bookshop in Glenwood Springs. And yeah, it changed my life. It was like I was bawling throughout half of it because it answered so many questions that I didn't even know that I was asking. Just on a spiritual level, on a plant-based level, on an earth-based level, it just, yeah, it, it, it made sense to me and it's easy to read.
It's, it's sort of cut up into different little essays from a bunch of different people throughout the world. Just about our connection to the land, our connection to the universe connection to [01:01:00] ourselves, all of that sort of thing. So yeah, if you're just looking for like a good read to get into, I think that book is really powerful.
. Yeah. If you're looking for more education or looking to dive deeper with the plants, I always say find somebody who does local plant walks. Like there's nothing that will come close to, you know, that experience online or through books than actually working with somebody who knows about the plants of your bioregion.
And to be able to tell you, you know, what's safe, what's not safe, how to wildcraft sustainably if you're, if you are going to do that to learn about the medicinal compounds. And again, to have that experience of actually, you know, chewing on leaves and you know, chewing on barks right from the plants in a place that you feel safe with somebody who knows what they're talking about is, is the most powerful, I think, learning experience that you could get.
And then once you start feeling confident with, you know, identifying plants and working with plants in that way, I think the, the [01:02:00] possibilities are endless really. Oh yeah, that's where I would start. .
Sara: I love that, Val. Thank you. That's so gorgeous. Yeah. Anything else you wanna be sure to mention while we're here?
VAl: Nothing too crazy going on here. I'm on, I have a website, wood spells.com with an S at the end. I am on social media, Facebook and Instagram as well. And yeah, I actually heard this quote to the other day and then it was this pretty crazy, it was this woman who her father was dying and he actually spoke to her through his mind.
This is what she said. And she sort of recited what he said to her and he told her in his like, dying moments that love so loud that you hear it in the next now and lately that's kind of been resonating with me, like I've been. Carrying that with me throughout, you know, the past couple weeks since I've heard it.
I think that's so powerful. Yeah, because really in the end it's [01:03:00] just, it's love. Like that's all you have in the end. Like that's all you carry with you, that's all your family carries with you is love. And you know how you, and even though it might sound cliche, I think it's it's true though. It really is.
Love for the planet, love for each other, you know, sort of that unconditional acceptance of other people of yourself. Like, yeah, just love loud. I think that's super important and whatever is, you know, and the next now quote unquote, I think maybe that that will carry on too. So yeah, that's kind of what I'm, I'm carrying right now.
Sara: Oh, thank you. That, yeah. Gave me chills all over and made my eyes water. It's just so, oh, so beautiful. Because it's powerful. Yeah, it is. It's like love and our relationships to ourselves to add other people to the land to. Plants to animals. Like, that's, that's all we have
VAl: really. I mean, right. And it's so hard.
Like, I get it, it's hard. Like we live in a [01:04:00] in the world where we've constantly got bad news coming at us and you know, just terrible, terrible things. So I get that that can be hard. And you know, I don't wanna give this illusion that that's always easy or a possibility. And I think it's totally fine to be in your feelings, your emotions however you feel at the moment.
But trying to always come back to love, I think that's what we're all really trying to do. Maybe at least what I think. Mm, mm-hmm. .
Sara: Yeah. Agreed. Amazing. Well, what's the best way that people can support you? I imagine perhaps subscribing to your newsletter. Yeah. Find something in your shop, following you on Instagram.
Yeah. So
VAl: Anything else? Anything else I'm missing? Yeah, that's, that's all totally easy ways to find me. Like I mentioned, we're in Gladwin, Michigan for our shop. We're having winter hours right now since it's just a little slower. We're open Thursday, Friday, Saturday right now. Also, yeah, I, I, I have been feeling that social media has been a little exhausting.
I just feel like it's [01:05:00] like, especially as your accounts grow, so many people, just random people have access to you at all times. So I just have felt a little exhausted from all that I still post on there, but I have been feeling more nourished by doing a newsletter which I'm going to attempt to start doing on a weekly basis as opposed to a monthly basis, because it just feels like, you know, those are the people that wanna be there.
Those are the people that. Wanna, wanna know what you have to say and are open to those sort of things. So I will be doing more of, of the newsletter because that's what's feeling good right now. But yeah, and we're almost sold out of most things on our website right now, but I am working on another update soon, so you can buy things online as well.
Sara: Amazing. Well, thank you so much, Val. It's been such a delight to chat with you, and it was just so juicy and nourishing and just invigorating. So thank you for all your beautiful ideas and sharing all your [01:06:00] wisdom and
VAl: insight. Yeah, thank you. This has been great. I really appreciate it. Amazing.